I have to pull myself together. I can’t get my act
together with this group.>>Why do you blame us?
>>What? [laughter]>>Okay honestly, when I’ve seen
the advertising slogans of ‘true fruits’, it was clear to me that
they screwed up big-time. There were things like
‘more bottles from abroad’ on a black bottle
and ‘our Black token’, or things like
‘bottled and taken away’. I’m so sure they
screwed up big-time. But I have to say quite honestly:
When I ask myself if I could judge the same way
if the responsible person would be affected by these things
which are written on the bottle, I don’t think that I could
be so judgemental. That’s why I would like to discuss
whether we can laugh about traumatic experiences and,
if so, who is allowed to do so. So welcome back to a new
episode of BlackRockTalk. I have wonderful dope guests again.
Look at them! Give them a wave. What’s up?
[laughter] I’m glad you could make it.
Newroz, I want to start with you.>>Oh my god, yes.
[laughter]>>You achieved something awesome
in the last few years. What was that?>>Exactly, I caught up a little bit.
I did my A level.>>Yeeaayaa!
High five!! Auuh!!>>My vocational baccalaureate, everything
fine. Now I’m studying social work. So that I get paid decently for
something which I always have done.>>What? Community work?>>Pedagogic political work
in different associations, for example GLADT which is from
Turkey or Lesbenberatung Berlin. Different organisations.
[snapping]>>Dope!!>>Who do significant work
and have done so for a long time.>>Inshallah. Maureen, you had dope
events last year: Songversations. I think I’ve
attended almost every event. I was always back in the corner dancing.>>You’re even in our trailer.>>Right! But don’t watch,
it’s embarassing. What was so special about
this series of events?>>This exchange with the guests. The
possibility to get to know the guests before they perform. And the exchange about
what happens at the party. That’s what it is.
>>Dope! I’m giving multi-tasking a try. [laughter]
>>Let me know if you need help.>>I think we need more
boiled water. It’s too little. Aynen, thanks.>>Nastassja, that’s actually not
your name which you normally… It wasn’t your first name until recently.>>Until recently.>>Your real name is Kyra. Tell
us more, how did that happen?>>Exactly, my first name is Kyra. Nastassja is my middle name,
which I hardly used. Actually, no one knew that it existed.
>>But…?>>Until the campaign #truediskriminierung
has grown on my responsibility. I didn’t really know what to expect
and how much hate I would have to expect and so, I wanted to protect
myself at least a little bit and decided to run the campaign
under my second name, which wasn’t well-known:
Nastassja. Now everyone knows me by Nastassja.>>Cool.
>>Fine for me.>>We’ll talk later about
what this campaign is about. But I want to ask you first.
Bro, you’re our first community guest. It’s a new method we’re trying out.
Welcome. Nice that you could make it. On a scale from one to ten:
how dope is BlackRockTalk?>>From one to ten. Is ten good or bad?
>>Ten is the bomb.>>Ten is the bomb. Then 10.3.>>Can we please have a
VIP seat for this brother?>>But today we are going to get it to 10,5.
There must be room for improvement.>>So, you are gonna make 0.2 percent?
[laughter]>>At least.>>Okay so, when you don’t watch
BlackRockTalk what do you do?>>I am self-employed in the field
of gastronomy and consumables. I used to study Islamic Studies,
Arabic Studies. I also worked at your former
employer ‘Deutsche Welle’. Or is it still?
>>Umm nope, yes, nope…>>Doesn’t matter.
>>I don’t know. In the middle.>>At some point I realized
journalism doesn’t take me any further. And then I thought money
is actually much nicer. [laughter]>>As one can see by my eyes. Yes,
I need money. Give me some money.>>And sometimes I also do…
so that is what I do for a living. I support things like cold shelters in winter
with a pretty nice Muslim association. And at Social Media I also give
a helping hand to some people.>>Nice! I would like to talk to you
about what you thought about this campaign by ‘true fruits’.
How did you react when you saw things like ‘Bottled and taken away’ or
‘Rarely makes it across the border’. I swear, I was flabbergasted,
but how did you react? Maureen, tell us.>>I hardly believed it had gone this far. That no one got it. Not many – until all the influencers
and people became involved. I have people around me
who don’t know about this. Since such a long time people
still don’t know about that.>>Gross.
>>Unbelievable what is going on.>>Did you react in the same way?>>I have to say, I missed
that in the beginning because ‘true fruits’ products
doesn’t make sense to me: 70% apple sauce and one foreign fruits.
I’d rather make them myself in the blender. If it would be the politically
most correct brand in the world I probably wouldn’t have bought it. That’s why it’s so sad,
I can’t even boycott them I didn’t even know they existed.
I’ve never seen a commercial by them because like many
I don’t watch TV anymore and only have seen it
through other influencers I always skim them. And then I thought: ‘Wait a second
– is this a sarcastic piss-take of racist advertising? When more and more
people posted this, I noticed: No, it’s a real campaign.
That’s not a joke at all. There are really people
who are so half-arsed that they think you can
do that as advertising and it took me a few days to digest it because emotionally I still thought:
No, it’s not seriuos.>>Sweet, I also want to discuss this if it would have been okay
if it had been satire but first I want to hear from you, Newroz. What did you think
when you read those things?>>When I saw that I honestly
thought: “Okay, I’m not surprised.” This hasn’t been a surprise to me. I don’t know the product very well,
I have to say, because it’s far too expensive. Sometimes,
when I had 5 or 10 Euros, I might have bought such
a big bottle to reuse it. Until people told me that
they were doing fatshaming. Hengameh once wrote
an article about them. They’ve always been racist.
I’m not surprised about that. You have to be a bit careful with people
who consider themselves politically left. Saying they understand, but actually,
if you look at their campaigns, it’s pretty clear there are white
heterosexual cis men working there.>>But why? I would never have
classified them as politically left.>>Not left, but I think they try
to go with the social justice flow.>>I don’t understand.
What do you mean by social justice flow?>>It’s just a little over the past 10 years. If you talked about
intersectionality 10 years ago, nobody really understood
what is meant by that. Except the Black women’s
movement in Germany. Nowadays however,
it has become a buzzword. Everyone talks about multiple
discrimination, it’s at universities, but I think that’s superficial knowledge
because most people still have no idea what it means. Even companies like Nike have
understood that if you put Black people or PoCs in advertising,
the sales go up. It has arrived in capitalism
and that’s dangerous. And that’s what we can
see in campaigns like this, that these brands are never safe.>>What I find interesting at the fact
“it has arrived in capitalism”, but only as figurehead,
not behind the scenes. Nastassja, you’ve started the #truediskriminierung campaign. Can you summerize? How did you
get into this? And how’s it going so far?>>How it came to this. It was super
spontaneous. It wasn’t planned at all.>>Did you do this alone?>>Yes, it was born out of
an emotion, namely out of anger. There were a lot of emotions. The brand is much too expensive,
therefore I never or quite rarely bought them.
The last time was a few years ago. At that time I didn’t had
this on my radar yet. I hardly noticed the marketing,
didn’t know anything. It was a coincidence that
I learned what happened on Instagram. And which has been criticized for years. That’s a pity that it’s
been going on for so long. Then I read my way through it. I commented at the beginning
and I thought to myself: “Dude, it can’t be.”
I didn’t even know in the beginning if they were serious. But then they took it
up a notch, so to speak. Everytime you thought…>>…they’ve checked it now.
When did you start this campaign?>>Mid to late February.
>>2019?>>Yes, just a few months ago.
>>So, how old is the campaign now?>>One and a half,
two months to the max.>>Just to make it clear.
Is the campaign only on Instagram? Or is there a petition?>>Exactly, at the very first
there was the petition via… Changeorg is such a website where you
can start petitions. This was the first idea which was adressed to
all the trade partners of “truefruits” in Germany, Switzerland and Austria. Within a very short time
the petition went viral, where I was totally impressed.
I was just looking earlier. We’ve broke through the 33,000
supporters mark which is really nice. To get all affected people on board.
This is what it stands for. It is a platform for people to be heard.>>Let’s get onto the meat of the issue. What if people behind those slogans
were people who are affected? Suppose this phrase
“rarely makes it across the border” would have been by a Black refugee. Would you still do your campaign?
Would you also still say “no”?>>I honestly think these people
wouldn’t do this campaign. People who are affected by this don’t
come up with a shitty idea like that.>>You find someone for everything. Especially, in regards to
the debate of integration, we have enough ethnic groups that
would make themselves available. Someone would be found to do it.
>>Sure!>>For money anyways. I think it doesn’t really matter
what someone says because it makes a difference
if one makes a joke about one’s own ethnicity
in their circle of friends or whether one puts it on posters
and puts it on the internet for money. I’d say it depends because you always find
someone for what you’re about to say. Then you can say: “But yadda
yadda yadda gave us a carte blanche. Everything is alright.”
I think it’s more about what you say. You just mentioned
capitalism and talked about how many present themselves
as a social justice company. But the difference to the
other social justice companies is that they are taking real messages
and take that as figurehead. Nike has People of Color,
Black people, Muslimas with hijab and puts them on the poster and doesn’t
say: “Can’t become a teacher. Hehe funny.”>>But the question is,
who earns money with it?>>Exactly!
>>Yeah sure. But there is a difference whether you spread a positive message
with the intention of making money or you insult with the
intention of making money.>>I’m with you. In the preparation I thought:
“Wow, that’s really a difference to our first episode”. We had the
Katjes advertising campaign. There they presented a
woman with a headscarf. This a positive example.
There are people who make an effort but there is room for
improvement in the realization. Which is here not the case.>>It must remain authentic. You can tell if it’s not authentic. You can tell when you take too
much trouble to stay on one track. In the end, you just want to be involved. The community also want to be addressed. It didn’t seem like that.
Not at all.>>In this campaign?
>>Yeah!>>But I don’t think that was their objective.
They were not concerned with that.>>It was a statement, right? It depends on who makes this
statement and to whom it is aimed at.>>You know what I believe. And please argue against me
if you don’t agree. I have the impression they knew
they wouldn’t face any consequences. There is no authority that says:
“You cannot do this.” That’s why they don’t care.>>I imagine that
they were convinced that they were doing something really good.
>>I agree.>>I guess they thought:
“we want to provoke.” But they still believe with no doubt: “Yes. We’re anti-racist, we’re anti-sexist,
we’re whatever because we say so.”>>We always think we are good people and good people do good things. There is only this one
idea of what racists do, how they operate and everything
which seems normal is not part of it. Many have this idea of
racists being this Ku Klux Klan. Nazis who present
themselves obviously. Your opinions can
still be racist, unfortunately. Many are not aware of that.>>To the fact that they mean well. In Islam we are urged to presume
always the good in the humankind. Okay, but then you did once something
that you meant well, and it was understood wrong. Then you did it again.
Again, again, again… And when people in the 3-digit
thousand range complained about you. People who you allegedly are
well-meaning, think this sucks. Then you said:
“No, no, you all got it wrong because you’re more or less stupid.” How long you’re supposed
to presume the good and say they are actually left?>>And structural discrimination
has nothing to do with good and evil. The intention doesn’t matter a damn.
>>Many don’t understand that.>>A combination of the
two of you is what I think. You have to pull this
debate out of this campaign and look at racism in Germany because since I don’t
know how many years… Adefra has been talking in Berlin
about racism in Germany since the end of the ’80s.
But, so that it reaches people and in Germany people think
1945 the Nazis flew away and since then: “Cool, we don’t have
any Nazis anymore, everything is great.” But, it’s not like that.
Structural discrimination is real. If you have demographic attributes
which makes those campaigns… None of them will say: “I’m a racist.”
No white person in Germany says that.>>I go along with it, but my problem is
there are always people in our own circles – when I say own circles I mean all people who are structurally
disadvantaged or excluded in Germany, Austria, Switzerland
…is the same. Wait, I lost my line of thought. There are people who reproduce racism.>>But we are never free of anything.
We grew up in this society. If you can’t reflect upon certain issues because you don’t
have time for it, because you have to work, because you have children, or
because you don’t have the resources because you can’t access that knowledge,
because you’re not an academic then it’s just difficult to get
into certain discourses and to understand certain things. I’m a trans person. How many women’s jokes
were made – before – where you laughed along and then
later when I reflected upon those, I thought: “Not so funny!” I also laughed about trans jokes
because I didn’t get it. This is a personal process
that people go through.>>That also means… Let’s say there’s a trans person
who is not politicised at all, who hasn’t understood that and who makes these kind of jokes,
who makes such comedy or is behind such an advertising campaign.
Would that be forgivable?>>I don’t know. It depends on the situation. For example if we talk about comedy. Me personally,
I don’t do comedy somewhere, but in private somehow. I believe in an approach called:
“punch up and never punch down”. “Punch up” means
that you only make fun of things that come from above.
So, I make fun of white people, I make fun of cis people. I would never make fun of Black people,
I would never make fun of Sinti and Roma because it is not funny
from my perspective.>>Just that I understand: You would only make fun of things
that are structurally above you. About people who have more privileges. Okay. I’m out of my mind.
I’m trying to exaggerate the situation. Assuming we have a Black brother who makes comedy,
is extremely successful but only uses Black stereotypes. Do I have the right to say:
“Brother, stop that shit!” Who am I?
>>Uuuhh yeah, that’s the…>>I’d say: “Has nothing to do with me.”>>Okay, tell us why.
Why would you say so? I don’t think I’m in a position
to comment on that or to get away from this example: if it would be Roma and Sinti or people
with disablities – visible or non-visible, like: who am I?>>This is so educational.
[laughter]>>I have another thought.
I can’t remember a particular situation, but I know I’ve been in one before. I made a mistake,
I was discriminating in some way. My language was shitty. One person came to me and corrected me. In that case it was a racist thing
and a white person mirrored it. And I must honestly say my ego was…
“Who are you talking to?” [Gelächter] But, what is more important. Okay, I’ve experienced
violence all these decades. But does that mean
I always get a free pass?>>When I would be a reflected
white person – whatever that means, I don’t believe in that, no offense. I would never allow myself
to go to a Person of Color, to a Black person and say:
“By the way, that’s totally racist.” I would hang my head in shame.
>>Why not?>>Well, if a white person
comes to me and says…>>It hurts the next person
who belongs to the community.>>But it depends on what is said, right? Do you know how many times it happens
to me that white people come to me who don’t consider
that I could be a trans person because they are so racist and transphobic
that they come to me and say… I had a situation at a party where a white person,
also a trans person, said to me – and I needed a handkerchief or something: “You can have it
but you have to call me ‘sir’.” And I was like: “Excuse me. No!” Then I said: “Why should I call you ‘sir’?” “Because I’m a man.” I was like: “By the way I am also trans,
I don’t give a shit what you are. I’m not gonna call a white person ‘sir’.” Situations like that where I think:
“Fuck you. No, thanks.”>>That escalated quickly.
[laughter]>>Tell us, what’s your opinion?
>>Uhh, what was the question again?>>When a white person comes to you…>>I don’t mind. Let him do it. I’m still learning about this whole thing.
It’s a learning process and I like to do that with everyone:
issa community thing. Let’s all learn. Let’s correct each other. It’s important to me that we do this. I myself do it with people
who I feel have placed their trust in me. This is important.>>What do you think about this, Nastassja?>>I’ve been thinking
about that a lot recently because I had a lot of
discussions in this context and I wouldn’t want to
presume to do that in any case. Because I’m not in their shoes and don’t know what kind of
experiences they’ve had in the past and to what extent it is hurtful or not. I just wouldn’t presume to do that.>>But couldn’t I argue now and say: “This form of censorhsip
stops our development as a pluralistic society.”
Boaahh, that sounds so… “In a pluralistic society.”
[laughter]>>I’m with you and what you said before that the affected communities
can solve this among themselves. I would assume that if a person, who is themselves affected
by some form of discrimination, and says something
problematic about that will be informed about that
by others of their community. I would simply stay with my topics where I have to learn myself
or I am affected by. If everyone handles it that way, it’ll work.>>I’m not a fan of that, not at all. I can understand your
points of view why one should argue within their own community. But if someone says something incorrect,
it doesn’t matter who is contradicting them. The important thing is
that you’re contradicting them. I was once in a situation where
I was discriminated as a white cis man. I was on facebook and
I had a small shitstorm there because my name is Florian. And when people are triggered, they
don’t look closely at your profile picture. Otherwise, they would
have known to say: “You as a white man shouldn’t
talk about that.” is not ideal with me.>>I don’t know if
I would call it discrimination. So, you were perceived
as a white cis man?>>The discrimination was
not to have been perceived like that, the discrimination was to say to me: “As a white cis man you shouldn’t
say anything on ths subject.”>>Ah okay. Do you
remember what subject that was?>>Yes, racism.
>>Uuuhhh!!>>Do you define yourself
as a white cis man?>>No, not at all.
>>Ah, that makes a difference.>>I feel totally German. I am also German.
I have Aryan ancestors, the passport with a Gestapo
stamp in my aunt’s keeping. It’s all there,
but I don’t give myself the illusion that anyone sees anything other
than something “middle eastern”. That’s why I don’t need
to define myself as white. But I was already
discriminated as a white person, because others online, because they were
too lazy or their display was too small only have seen: “Ahh Florian, he’s
not allowed to comment on the topic.” I think if I say something wrong, I want to be informed about that
– no matter by whom. If I say something anti Black, then you can tell me that too.
Or you. Or you. It doesn’t has to be her.
>>That would be okay. Nobody said that.>>I think if we look in this hierarchy. Oahh, I don’t like it,
but that’s the way it is.>>No matter what I say, if I make a mistake,
everyone should inform me about that. I want everyone to point out my mistakes
and I also point out everyone’s mistakes, even if they’re not from my sub-community, because my whole
community is the humankind and if anyone behaves shitty,
I have the right to say something. For example in Islam, we have
the power to prevent injustice, either with the hand,
with the tongue or with the heart. Currently, the world is free and
I can intervene with my tongue. We still have this luck that we don’t
have to lose our heart in injustice. I still want to keep call everyone out
who fucks up. I’ll do that!>>But it’s not like everyone can
do that always and everywhere. There are power relations on this world
and not everyone can say something. I don’t know who else
is working in that campaign. I imagine Black people and PoCs
already had problems with this company and may have tried to boycott it.
That didn’t work because they are not heard,
because they are not taken seriously. I think if you are a cis person, middle class and white,
then you’ll be taken seriously – not you personally.
You are getting heard. But if you have certain other identities,
it’s not that easy sometimes.>>That’s why we all have to be so loud.
Exactly where it’s not our community.>>I’d say the humiliation
is even more blatant. You know what I mean, right? When I’m in such a situation
and a Johann comes to me.>>This is it, Esra!
>>And he will be taken seriously.>>Really, this is it. You just have to be able to receive that.>>But it’s not getting received
unless it’s white people.>>That’s true. But everyone will
always have that opportunity.>>I have to say quite honestly:
there are two perspectives at the table. One side says: “No, affected people
have to sort this out among themselves.” And the other side says:
“Never mind, we have to begin holding each other accountable.” For myself, I can’t say right now
what I’m comfortable with. I notice that I have to tackle this issue and find out if in these
situations, it’s just my ego that can’t handle that and says:
“Who are you talking to?” Or if it’s something that triggers another form of
memory where I say “Yo, I’ve been reprimanded
so many times by you. Things more violent
where you weren’t even right. Why should I allow it again? I would love to start with the fishbowl. We got a vase with apples in it.
If you want to eat, you can eat. Esra Ayari and I, we’ve picked out
three or four situations. Let’s just pull them one at a time and discuss what we think about them.>>I’m scared.
[laughter]>>I’ll start if no one wants to. Uuuhhh no!
Are they all like that? [laughter] “Barry Hammerschmidt aka
Bodyformus makes prototype videos. In a video entitled
“Kanake in der Beziehung” a young woman…”
– should I have read it out?>>Sure.
[laughter] “…is getting yelled at by her boyfriend
(acted by comedian Tutty Tran) because she’s wearing a transparent top. She should change her
clothes or put on a bag since only he is allowed
to see her back hair.” Funny.>>I don’t understand, may I read it again?
>>Yes please, read it out again.>>Do you know the video of Bodyformus? I sent it to you earlier.
Do you know it?>>Not that, but I’ve seen enough
to be able to imagine that figuratively. [laughter]>>The question now: cool or not cool?>>The whole video
or this specific situation.>>I’d say the whole video.>>I always laugh at his videos,
but then I’m ashamed of it. [laughter]
>>Lol.>>It always crosses my
boundaries and goes back again.>>But your shame arises only
because you seem to notice that something is not cool.
What is not cool?>>70 % is not cool.>>Barry, if you see that: I celebrate you. But sometimes you just cross that line. You did a great job. He is also
celebrated by thousands of people.>>Yeah, I think he has a million follower.
>>I like this guy. I think he’s a good friend. He knows a lot of my people,
but what can I say? Then I’m a “whore”. I can’t do that. [laughter]>>Do you agree?
How do you feel about that?>>Hm.. not in this specific video,
but he punches against all sides. He also made a prototype alman
video, which makes it kind of fair.>>That is his niche.
Have you seen this video?>>This one?>>That’s not funny.
She should put on a garbage bag.>>Well, he’s a super cute brother.
I also really like you. I don’t know him.>>We all like you.
[laughter] For me personally,
it’s too hetero, too simple. Well, I think some
things are funny when we are among ourselves. Excuse me, but for me as
a trans person that is like a burden. I’m not a cis guy but I look like one.
All these stereotypes – he makes them rather
from a Black perspective – but also as men of color are concerned. It’s all coming back to me.
People assume I’m like that. I have to push against that and say:
“No, I’m not one of them, so to speak.” I see what he’s trying to do. I see that
he’s incredibly funny, incredibly smart. Great timing and so on, but it’s like, “Mhhm, why?!”>>The interesting is that Esra
– I always have to say your last name – Esra found that example.
Then I watched it and was prepared for:
“Ah, here comes something problematic.” But actually I think
it’s made in a cool and intelligent way because on the one hand
the target group is much, much younger. I believe the people
who are sitting at this table, we have a bit more brain.
>>Speak for yourself! [laughter]
>>But, then you diss yourself.>>Yes, I’m allowed to.>>What I was thinking:
he exaggerated it so much in the video that as a person watching it,
I could have this moment: “Haha, he’s exaggerating it so much
and makes fun of it.”>>But who is the audience?
>>I was wondering the same.>>Of course, it’s also
Black boys and boys of color who think it’s super funny
and who are 13, 14. But I also believe that
a huge part are white people, older…>>But my question: is it even
possible to seperate an audience? Can you do it justice? Can I say: “I’m only making
comedy for hijabis?”>>That happens.
You can do that and it happens. You can tell which target group
you are addressing.>>But you have never a ‘safer space’.
>>No, but you can do it like Noah Sow. Noah Sow has been doing this
very smart for over 20 years. Noah Sow did a comedy show with the
“Edutainment Attacke”, with Mutlu Ergün and at some point they were like: “Ohw shit.
A lot of white people sit in the audience and laugh about it.” Then she wrote
this book “Deutscher Humor”. I find it brilliant.
Do you know that? ..It’s an empty book, there’s nothing in it.
No, there is no German humor. Noah makes fun of
white Germans very clearly.>>Wait, when this is a mic-drop, like that…>>But that’s the bomb.
That’s the way it should be. It’s about who is laughing
about it, you know? I haven’t seen a single white German
person yet, who read it and think it’s funny. I observed that. They’re all like: “Okay.”
[laughter]>>There is even an English
translation of it: “German Humor”. [laughter]
>>Guys!>>This can lead to many things.
Humor has the ability – if it’s well done –
a funny movie can play in a concentration camp.
Like in “Life Is Beautiful.” This movie is great.
It’s super funny and super sad.>>What is that? Was that a TV show?
>>No, a film.>>And what happened there?>>It’s about a father who got into a
concentration camp with his son. So that his son doesn’t perceive
the reality of life so bad, the father pretends it’s all simply a game. It’s super funny and super painful.
It’s humor and it is well-made. It had won all kind of prizes.
And from this video you may conclude, there are guys who are totally jealous
and suppress their partner. This exaggeration “she should put on a bag because he may only see her back hair”
– it’s an exaggeration. A guy who lives this suppressive
raw lifestyle may think: “Okay, I’m actually as stupid
as in the example.”>>That’s what I thought, too.>>It can make this click,
but there are also 10 ‘almans’ who think: “See, that’s the
way they are – the Muslims. Always suppressing their women.”>>If you take this video,
it goes even much further. When she’s alone on her way
and then hears his voice. I mean, this woman isn’t his possession. It doesn’t matter what kind of stereotype
that is meant to be. That’s where it begins.>>Exactly, by this way of thinking. Not even being taken in by the fact
that you could own a woman.>>And throwing all those clichés
together in one pot. No! You cannot do that. How do I get rid of this bullshit?>>I understand you.
And I agree, but somehow also not. Because I think that’s comedy, isn’t it? That we are capable of…>>What does he want to achieve?
>>Clicks.>>He can make fun of other men
without getting women into the mix.>>At the expense of whom?>>Chill, I interrupted her.>>It’s again, of course
he wants to criticise something but it’s at the expense
of the women concerned.>>He’s not weak either. This man did some great work
before he started his YouTube channel. He’s a personal coach. His social sphere is lit. He can do other things. It’s his choice.>>I agree, it’s a choice. Definitely!>>He’s supported by others.>>Masculinity is very dangerous thing.>>Something else?
Next one, take it. Let’s pull one piece of paper!>>I can pull one.>>I hope it’s the example,
this would be the bomb.>>The defamation poem
of Jan Böhmermann.>>Yess! Yes!
>>Shall I really read that all out?>>There are only three lines of this.>>I actually wrote my entrance examination
because I didn’t had the A-levels.>>Can you be charged?
>>No, do it!>>Am I getting charged
if I read that out?>>Please, if you want
to report, please don’t?>>Please don’t.
I read it out loud, right?>>It’s really only an excerpt.>>I’m reluctant.
>>Shall I read it?>>Yes.
>>Let me read it.>>I was the one… Doesn’t matter.
I just read it. The defamation poem by Jan Böhmermann: ‘Most of all he likes fucking goats
and oppressing minorities, […] From Ankara to Istanbul
everyone knows, that man is gay, perverted, lice-ridden and zoophile,
Recep, Fritzl, Přiklopil.’>>What do you say?
>>Shut the fuck up! Not you, him.>>He’s hostile to Austrians.
>>Dude, what?>>He’s like truefruits. They’re supposed to be building a family
and live somewhere else.>>As a Kurd, if I may say so,
I find him really disgusting. I also know many Kurdish people who
say: “Yes, finally against Erdoğan!” I’m like: “Yes, but we’re still in this context and this guy is a disgusting
white guy who’s first not funny at all, and second has no idea.”
And it’s full of racist bullshit.>>I would like to put in my two cents,
but I keep to myself. Please!>>I study social work and I don’t have the A-levels,
but I had an entrance exam. The task was – it was exactly at the time when
the dafamation poem came out – and I had to write an essay
on a similar question. I thought it was terrible even back then.>>Honestly, in general if you want to do
a defamation poem, then do it. Whatever. My problem is, he’s homophobic. He uses other forms of violence
to criticize someone. And I think: Wait a second. Oppressing minorities says
the guy sitting on a throne. “Dude, give me some money.
Then we can talk about oppression.” You deserve a hiding.>>Fighting discrimination with
discrimination is simply not possible. That’s just not possible.>>There is a difference
if he only is insulting Erdoğan. For example, “oppressing minorities”
or when he says “this man is gay”. So what? Is that an insult?
>>Yani.>>That’s not an insult,
but he’s using it like an insult. And this thing with “fucking goats”…
So I have studied Islamic Studies and the Crusaders have
already used that stereotype. After they did the genocide
of the Muslims in Granada, they have attached Golem
in form of a Muslim who fucks a goat. It’s an ancient image which
has already been used for genocides. As if you don’t find enough things
to criticize Erdoğan for, without resorting to such blatant images. Why doesn’t he take Fritzl and Priklopil?>>Otherwise he wouldn’t
have become famous.>>It’s not about Erdoğan,
he wanted to be famous. He thought he would do something cool.
>>Okay honestly, he screwed up. We all agree it’s not cool, right? Just as a final round. I love
to do advice for action. So that we can give
something to the audience, which is more tangible.
Also to get back to the truefruits campaign. If something like that happens again, right? Like that Hornbach ad from last week.
>>I wasn’t there last week.>>Doesn’t matter, watch it.
>>That would be another episode.>>Exactly, different episode. If something like this happens again,
what would you give advertisers? Which advice of action? What would you give spectators
or normal people in Germany, how this should be dealt with
from your point of view?>>I don’t think they want to hear anything. The marketing and advertising
industry is so damn stubborn. They know what kind of market they have.
I don’t have the power to adress things. But I’d say the audience
has a lot of power, too. We need to realize that. We can make
a lot of things happen, abolish a lot. We need to ask ourselves more often in
what kind of society do we want to live in. Then let’s get started!>>This kind of reflecting, you mean?
>>Totally, over and over again.>>Newroz?>>I have no answer for that, no idea. I still hope for a demographic
change in Germany, and that this will solve all problems.
That’s what a friend of mine used to say. Then the problems with
the ‘almans’ somehow solves itself – the way we reproduce. [laughter] But I believe that no one who has power, gives up power willingly.
I don’t think so. That’s why the personal level and somehow what you said
about the Islam, I think it’s all fine, but it’s not really enough,
unfortunately. I wish it were. I wish we would live in a world
where people have those values that you appreciate. I think
it’s very beautiful to hear. But I believe this has to
happen on a structural level and it needs time, it neeeds
people, it needs money. We usually don’t have those. That’s why the only way
to start such actions where the general public can be reached. The way it is right now in Germany,
this is one of the ways to solve things. It’s very important
for people in positions of power to listen to people and involve people
who are not in those positions.>>Cool.>>I’m a little pessimistic.
>>Nastassja.>>I totally agree with you.
I would like it to be enough to begin on a personal level, with yourself. Of course this is also very important.
You mustn’t forget that. I believe a lot can be achieved,
especially in your direct social circle because you can have
a more intimate discourse. But I also think “pessimistically”. Power is not given up
voluntarily and power is money. It’s about a lot of money. I cannot imagine that the people
in power would voluntarily give it up. That’s why I also believe that
there is a need for such actions. Or anything else, so that the
social discourse is being set in motion And what one can do, which is
also the objective of the campaign: to hit where it hurts.
If there is no insight, then simply to not buy it
and take away power, even if it’s just a bit
by not giving money. I also think it needs both. One must
live in this society with certain values. But there are also massive changes
on a structural level needed. This can only happen
when the positions in power are occupied by disadvantaged people.
>>Cool. Florian?>>May I make the appeal
directly into the camera?>>Of course, please.>>Dear advertisers. You’re not artists,
you’re not politicians either. No one will remember you in 60 years.
No one cares about you. Try not to attract attention
with racist bullshit, because that’s when people
will remember you in 60 years. Then you come together: “The most
stupid racist advertisements of all times”. And who would want to stand
on the wrong side of history? You know how it works. Okay?
It’s not that hard.>>Honestly, I think you just
put the icing on the cake. But another tangible action for advertisers:
Contact me or us, give us some money.>>We got you!
>>I do counselling. Really I do that!
[laughter]>>I make a social media campaign for you.
[laughter]>>We have the people.
We have the networks.>>We can connect you. No problem. Release some money
and then let’s talk about it. It’s not that hard.
>>Don’t get in touch with me. [laughter]>>And for people like us. Look where we can
support people – campaigns! Also this show. Just the fact that you’re watching
this, is amazing support. You grapple with this. I think everyone finds their own way.
I’m not so pessimistic. I say: The peace that we want outside
must first be found within ourselves. If we are good and loving
with ourselves, then for sure. Thanks for coming in.
This was so, so nice! Give yourself a round of applause.
[clapping] Thanks to the team.
Aauuuu!! [Outro music]