The Paleo Vegan Debate – Podcast #69

The Paleo Vegan Debate – Podcast #69


Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Evan Brand, what’s
going on today, man? Evan Brand: Hey, not much. It’s a sunny day. We’re headed into fall. The leaves are turning colors. It’s beautiful. I hiked all weekend and you skied all weekend. So, how are you feeling? Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m feeling really,
really sore. I was water skiing this weekend with my wife
and some friends and I am just so sore. I had a water skiing run that probably lasted
5 minutes because if we were going under the Austin 360 bridge and I’m like, “Oh, I
gotta–I gotta make it.” So I was a couple miles away from it and I
just really plowed through it and I’m just super sore so any time my legs elongate like
the–the quad muscles start to, you know, I walk down stairs and my knees wanna buckle
on me so I gotta like really hold the–the railings as I walk downstairs now. Evan Brand: I know the feeling. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. But other than that, it was great and sounds
like you had a good weekend, too. Evan Brand: Yeah, sure did. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Excellent. Well, we talked pre-show that we wanted to
talk about vegan and vegetarian diets and kinda compare it to a Paleo template if you
will. Evan Brand: Yup. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Let’s dig in. Evan Brand: Sure. So many clients have walked into both of our
doors with a previous history or current history of vegetarian or vegan diet and they feel
okay for a little while. It’s like, “Ah, I feel good. I started to get some energy.” Maybe they lost a little bit of weight and
then there’s this turning point where it’s like, “Oh my God, my hair is falling out. I can’t sleep anymore. I’m exhausted. I’m wired and tired. Now I’m gaining belly fat. What is going on?” Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So there’s two arguments when it comes to
this. There’s the emotional argument which is
the argument that most vegetarians typically make and there’s the scientific evolutionary
argument which is sometimes they try making that argument, too. But it doesn’t quite connect with the fact. So let’s break it down one by one. So the first argument is the emotional appeal
and you gotta know it’s emotion because, you know, you got the little animal. It’s furry. It’s got family. It’s got kids. And you know, we don’t wanna eat that because
it’s death, right? That first assumption assumes that plants
are inanimate objects and have no life force at all. So anytime I’m dealing with someone that’s
coming at it from like a life, you know, you’re ending a life, right? You’re ending that animal’s life and it’s
got a face and it’s got cute little cuddly kids, it’s a tough argument to make because
it’s a strong emotional appeal. I always come at it from another perspective
that it takes life to sustain life. Anytime you’re living, your body has to
take life force, whether it’s in the form of nutrients from vegetation–plants, fruits,
starch, right? Those things have to be alive at some level
and we know there’s some life force coming off because we have things like Kirlian photography
that you can actually see energy coming off of it and we know that if you leave kale on
your fridge or can too long, it–it rots. It stinks like vegetables when they die, they–they
make some serious–some serious smells, same thing with meat. So there’s obviously some life force there
because we know things like McDonald’s French fries and Big Macs, they literally stay for
like years on end. There’s some guy on the Internet that got
a 5-year or 10-year-old French fries and burger from McDonald’s and it doesn’t go. So we know there is some more–there’s
different life force to plants, right? Than like junk food. So we know it does rot, so there’s obviously
some life to it and we know that’s the same case with meat. If we leave out there, meat does rot as well. So the question is, well, you are taking life
anytime you eat something. Whether or not you connect with the sentience,
r–right? The ability for that thing to be sentient,
to have sensation. It’s just hard for us to connect with plants
being sentient. It’s very easy to connect with animals being
sentient. So my appeal to any patient that makes that
argument to me or brings that point, it takes life to sustain life. Your spinach and your kale is just as alive
as your animals that you’re eating. They rot and they stink just like the meat
that rots and stinks and I think it was a scientist by the name of, I think, it was
Cleve Backster, he wrote the book, The Strange World of Plants, and he would approach plants
with scissors and he had the plants hooked up to electrodes and you’re making that
scissor noise as your closing the scissors, open and close, like you’d see maybe in
like a horror movie or something, and as they are approaching the plant–you see these
electrodes coming on the device moni–that’s monitoring the plant, so it’s like the plant
is picking up some degree of fear or some degree of emotion when those electrodes were
hooked up. So it’s–it’s fascinating, you know,
we’re never gonna be able to connect it, you know, a plant being maybe as sentient
as an animal but there is some level of sentience. So my appeal to anyone that has that kind
of philosophy is that your plants have life, too, and you gotta eat healthy plants, if
not, you’re not gonna have a healthy life. Evan Brand: It’s very true. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: You wanna add to that? Evan Brand: Well, no. That was great, man. It’s just–it’s funny that we’re still
having this debate because people they get conditioned to feel certain ways like there’s
so much emotional attachment. Now I’m totally down with the idea that
factory farming and things like that are awful and they create antibiotic-resistant bacteria
that have now gone airborne and things like that, so I’m totally on board with the idea
of getting rid of the unsustainable disgusting sick animal models. That’s not what we’re talking about today. We’re talking about sustainably raised animals
that live a happy life up until the moment that they were, you know, their life was ended
to sustain us. So it’s definitely something that you have
to get a little bit more specific about and get a little bit more research about because
there are sources of healthy, happy animal– Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Evan Brand: Meat out there. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So I–I’ve someone came up to me over the
weekend and we were chatting about diets and they’re like, “Oh, I’m vegan, like you’ve
gotta be vegan to be healthy.” And I just said, “Oh, man, I–I eat lots
of good, healthy animals that have eaten lots of good vegetables.” So I–I feel like you can get a lot of good
health from meat as well. And he’s like, “Oh, how–how–how could
you eat that–that rotten flesh.” I go, “No, man. I–I don’t eat rotten flesh.” I said, “Why would I ever wanna eat something
rotten? I get my meat pretty fresh and I freeze it
and I cook it up.” I’m like, “I don’t eat rotten vegetables. Do you eat rotten vegetables?” And he goes, “No.” And I said, “Well, really all meat is. It’s just being broken down into essential
fatty acids and amino acids, right? And maybe some fat-soluble nutrients. So the question, what about those fat-soluble
nutrients and amino acids and fatty acids are bad?” And the person couldn’t answer the question. Because when you–because you wanna make
the emotional appeal, right? You get this image of rotten flesh. It’s kinda like, you know, it’s like,
“Ooh, it doesn’t feel good.” But then you–you distill out that right
brain image and you go to the left brain, well, what’s actually in that? Like that stomach acid enzyme hate that, what
does it really become? You know, we’re not talking about rotten
flesh. We’re just talking about animal flesh that’s
ideally cooked so it’s pre-broken down and we’re–obviously we’re talking higher
quality stuff. It becomes essential fatty acids, amino acids,
and fat-soluble nutrients. That’s what it becomes. So then the question is, what about those
nutrients are different in plants? That’s then what the scientific question
becomes. Evan Brand: Well, and what is not in those
plants at–? Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, exactly. So this person then said, “Yeah, but, you
know, where all those essential fatty acids and amino acids and fat-soluble nutrients
came from?” And I said, “Well, they came from the plants
that that animal ate.” He was like, “Yes, that’s why you should
eat that.” And I said, “I–I agree.” I said, “Over half of my plate is typically
vegetables but here’s the one piece you’re missing, is that that animal concentrates
that plant matter. So it takes 6-8 pounds of vegetation to make
that 1 pound of meat, so as I agree with you but what you’re getting is, you’re getting
nutrient density.” So that’s why think a–when I say a Paleo
diet, I don’t like Paleo diet, I like Paleo template, because I have patients that are
90% vegan-vegetarian but are still so-called Paleo and we’ll go into why or how that
is. So I told this person, I said, “Well, the
benefit is nutrient density. I’m getting 8-9 times more of that nutrients
from plant than you are because I’m getting it from a creature that’s bio-accumulated
it for me and then now I’m cooking them and I’m ma–making sure that they were
raised humanely and are ideally organic and no GMO feed in a natural environment like
grass, now I can really get a higher level of nutrient density than you can by just eating
plants alone.” Evan Brand: That’s true. Yeah, and some of the B vitamins. I mean B12 is kind of a common topic where
they’ll try to outsupplement or replace that and that’s a tough one that you’re
really not going to succeed with–with for a long time. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: No, you’re not gonna
be able to get B12. You’ll be able to get various B12 analogs
but again, I’ve seen many vegetarians and vegans and even the good ones know that you
still have to supplement B12. So that at some level, if you’re having
to supplement B12, you have to concede at some point that your diet is somewhat nutrient
deficient, because if not, you wouldn’t be deficient. You wouldn’t need the extra B12. Evan Brand: I’ll still take some B12 occasionally
like if I’m trying to do a lot of intense exercise or if I just feel kinda low, I just
have some–some fun little sublingual methyl B12 that I’ll just pop here and there, but
you know, generally I feel pretty good without it. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I think it’s
great to use various vitamins and nutrients to upregulate physiology and function, but
we’re talking about more pathology with vegetarians. They can come down with something known as
posteriolateral sclero–sclerosis or subacute combined system disease where they literally
can have this–this demyelination. Their nervous system starts breaking down
because they don’t have B12 and they can also become very anemic to the point where
their ability to carry or create healthy red blood cells becomes decreased. So we’re talking more, they’re not talking
these things in is gonna actually cause potential pathology or various conditions where we’re
like supplementing just because we also–we wanna be more optimum. Evan Brand: Yeah, right. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And some people– Evan Brand: It’s scary. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Some people with gut
issues e–even if you’re having the best diet, they may have malabsorption, so even
though they’re eating good things that may not even get into their body. Evan Brand: Uh-hmm. So let’s talk about what you were just mentioning
before that we needed to come back to, the people that are mostly a vegetarian diet really
but it can still be considered somewhat of a Paleo diet. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Evan Brand: And how they can be healthy with
that. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, let’s transition
over to that. The first thing I wanna hit though is a lot
of people that go vegetarian-vegan feel better. Why do they feel better at first? So let’s go through our list of why that
actually happens. So number one, people that are vegan or vegetarian,
they tend to not consume alcohol or at least in small amounts. That’s number one. Number two, they aren’t eating the junky
meat, right? A lot of people eating hotdogs or McDonald’s,
you know, processed meat. Not that a hotdog is bad, it can be good if
it’s grass-fed and organic. But if you’re eating lower quality meat,
you’re not getting–now all the hormones, the antibiotics and potential GMOs from that. You’re also having less sugar. You’re typically eating more green vegetables. You’re typically exercising more and you’re
not eating all of the trans-fat, all of the bad, nasty, refined trans-fat. So just off the bat, less alcohol, and also
typically more exercise, right? So we have more exercise, less alcohol, less
sugar, more vegetables, and then less chemicals and antibiotics and hormones from the bad
meat. By just taking those things out, you’re
gonna have a significant benefit and vegetables are really good for you. So if you eat more of those, you can significantly
improve the quality of your life off the bat, especially if you’re coming from a bad diet
to begin with. The difference is though, most vegan-vegetarians
now come to the result that their improvement had to do with them pulling meat out of their
diet versus the other compounding variables that happen the exact same time while they
pull the meat out of their diet, the ones I already listed. Evan Brand: That’s a great point. Yeah, MSG popped in my head, too, getting
that out of your diet– Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Aspartame, MSG, all
these excitotoxins, right? Evan Brand: Super helpful. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And typically people
that go vegan or vegetarian typically do what? They eat organic, right? They cut out the GMOs, too. Evan Brand: Hopefully. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I mean, especially
the vegans. The vegans tend to be more on point with that. But again, I see a lot of that vegans and
vegetarians out there where their diet just becomes grains and beans and just a whole
bunch of other refined grains that are very high in sugar, too. But when people come to me and they’re like,
“I just felt so great going this vegan-vegetarian way.” Well, those are typically the big variables
that make a huge difference and there’s one more. If you have a compromised gut issue, you’re
actually cutting down a lot of times the fat and protein in your diet, and if you’re
not eating all this fat and protein, you may be able to break things down better and not
have this indigestion of a–a meat brick sitting in your stomach because you can’t
make the enzymes and HCL to break it down. So a lot of times, people do better because
there’s less fat, there’s less protein, their gallbladder, their enzyme, and hydrochloric
acid levels aren’t being tested as much and without that test and not having that
indigestion that may have been created by the meat. Now it’s not the meat that caused the problem. The meat was just revealing a weak link in
the digestive physiology. Evan Brand: Yup, it’s not actually fixing
the digestive problem, just taking the load off that digestive system that’s still messed
up and needs to be fixed. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly. It’s like and–well, if it hurts to walk
all day on–with your ankle, your ankles hurt. Well, I’m just gonna go and use a wheelchair
to fix the issue. Well, that doesn’t fix the issue, it’s
just, you know, preventing you from noticing the problem because you’re not standing
or walking on that ankle. So it’s just causing you to shift your focus
a little bit, it’s–it’s really the duct tape over the check engine light. Evan Brand: Good one. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, I can’t see. That’s it, right? Evan Brand: Yup. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Do you wanna break
that down at all anymore? Evan Brand: No, that’s great. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Good. So let’s kinda recap. I’ll recap a couple of times. So number one, when you’re having this conversation
with your friend or family member, acknowledge–let the fact that they probably made a really
good change especially if they’re feeling better, right? Acknowledge, they’ve probably done a lot
of good things. Now the question is, how can we prevent them
from throwing the baby out with the bathwater, right? They’re gonna come to the conclusion that
it was the meat that did it all and not all of the other things that were naturally excluded,
right? Number two, when you’re having the conversations,
I always say, never show up to a gun fight with a knife, right? So you gotta armed with facts. So notice in the conversation when there’s
an emotional appeal, and try to always take away the emotion appeal to the left brain. You know, go into the more logic side. And it’s a real valid approach that hey,
there’s emotion, there’s life, right? I always come at it from the form that it
takes life to sustain life and that you always have to eat things that are alive and–and
my–my premise to you is that your plants are just as alive whether or not you can detect
it or not, your plants are just as alive. That kind of a premise on the life side and
in the next part is, well, what are our options? Because vegetarians and vegans tend to not
think there are any options. They understand the difference between GMO
vegetables and non-GMO. They understand the difference between pesticides
and organic, but for some reason, there isn’t a distinction between grass-fed organic meat
and meat with antibiotics and pesticides and chemicals. Like meat’s all like in one category but
we know that there’s different categories of vegetables, right? We know that. But we can’t have that conversation tie
into the meat and my thing with the meat is yes, there’s what we can do, the non KFO,
non-caged animal stuff. We can have them killed humanely. We can even do a locally farmed, we can do
organic, we can do grass-fed, we can do all of these good things, but a lot of vegans
and vegetarians don’t like to distinguish the meat quality. And that’s a problem with me, because if
you can distinguish the quality on the vegetable side then we have to run that principal universally
through on the meat side. Evan Brand: That’s very true, yeah, and
a lot the studies that people will use against me, those are gonna be your conventional crappy
quality meat, so when they’ll have articles that come out like red meat causes cancer
or all these other diseases, that’s not taking into account the quality of the meat
itself. You’ve been confused where maybe you’ve
been eating Paleo and then you start questioning yourself. Trust us, you’re in the right–you’re
in the right frame of mind. You just have to pay attention to what quality
is actually being used in some of these research journals. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. And then we also just have some things that
evolutionary don’t make sense. I’ll just give you for–for example, let’s
say you evolved anywhere where there’s permafrost, right? That means the ground was frozen, you could
not survive on vegetables all year long. We can even go thousands of years ago, right? You had to eat an animal or kill an animal,
if not you wouldn’t survive because we didn’t have the–the refrigeration. We didn’t have the methods to preserve things
like we did. So you had to have–the only thing you would
access to once that frost came and once your food rang–ran out was animals. That was it. That was the only way you could survive. Now in the tropics it’s different, because
well, you had fish all-year-round and you had vegetation all-year-round, but anywhere
there was a winter, and the higher up the equator you went, the longer the winter, you
had to have an animal to survive. Evan Brand: It wouldn’t be possible. I mean even here in Kentucky and starting
as early as December, January, February, there is nothing growing. So you have animals and that’s pretty much
it. So I mean typically a lot of the people joke
about gaining weight and being the biggest during the holiday season. Typically if you are kinda following the seasonal
food availability, you would be the leanest in the winter, just because you’re gonna
be eating pretty much straight fat and protein. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, it’s typically
higher carb in the summer, because more of the starch in the fruit’s available and
lower carb during the winter, because you’re primarily on fat and protein. Evan Brand: Yeah, it’s amazing. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And once I bring that
up, because you know, I’m–I’m pretty armed on this because, you know, vegan and
vegetarian was the right way to go 10-15 years ago when I started out in this game. Then the more I study and I tried it, it just–it
didn’t work for me, because one, I–I couldn’t stabilize my blood sugar because you just
can’t get enough high-quality fat and protein from eating vegetarian. I mean, you can get your fats primarily from
avocado, coconut and nuts, but when you’re talking about proteins outside of like pea
protein or rice protein powders, you have to get a whole bunch of carbohydrate with
your protein, rice, and beans. 15 grams of protein per 60-80 grams of carbohydrate. You get a lot of carbs with your food. Even humus, I mean it’s still gonna be a
good amount of protein in there but you’re still gonna get a fair amount of carbs as
well. And then you gotta combine it, right? Because a lot of these vegetarian protein
sources are lower in sulfur amino acids which we need more to run our glutathione and detoxification
pathways and we also need methionine and lysine to complete the essential 8–essential 8
amino acids we need. So we tend to be missing a lot of these aminos
in the plant-based products but we have them in the animal-based products. Evan Brand: Yeah, it’s like having 3 cylinders
going in your car when you have a 6-cylinder car. It’s like you can fill all those other ones
in and have much better performance. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. So the big benefits that we get in–from
eating Paleo or a Paleo template–I had a patient just last week, who was vegetarian-vegan
for a long time, we have her eating 90% vegan-vegetarian. We just cut out all the grains. We have her emphasizing good nuts and fats
from coconut, avocado, olive oil, etc. We have her getting into fish oil and we have
her doing egg yolks and a little bit of fish to start. And her plate’s like 90% vegetables without
all the extra crapohydrate that you get in a vegan-vegetarian diet and she’s doing
better. We added in some enzymes and HCl, and she’s
able to start handling some of those denser protein and fat sources better, too. So we can always work around that. Now the one thing we get though when we start
adding in the meat is we start getting better blood sugar stability, right? Because these things are like metabolic logs
in the fire and they can keep our blood sugar from going up and down throughout the day. So there’s a reason why you go look at cows,
they have to eat all day long. They have to eat all day long because there’s
just not that blood sugar stability. There’s not he nutrient density because
you’re not getting all these fat and protein from the grass, right? So they have to eat all day long. They also have 5 different stomach chambers
where–where they ruminate a lot of these foods and they can ferment them and create
vegetable–I’m sorry–create fat-soluble nutrients and vitamins from fermenting that
vegetation. So they can do that. We can’t. We don’t have 5 stomachs. We don’t have that ability and they just
eat all day long. So now looking at a lot of vegan-vegetarians,
well, unless your grazing all day long, you’re gonna have massive blood sugar issues, so
we gotta be eating every 4-5 hours. That’s gonna help us to have less insulin. It’s gonna help us stabilize blood sugar
and that fat and protein will allow us to go that 4-5 hour between meals. Evan Brand: Yeah, you don’t have to carry
around a Ziploc baggie of carrots and cucumbers. I’ve seen that a few times. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, exactly. Oh, and also one more thing. One more other argument that gets thrown out
there a lot is, well, look at our teeth, we don’t have–we don’t have teeth like
a lion or–or a tiger or a bear, right? It’s like, well, let’s do the Math here
a little bit. So one, we have incisors, right here, these
are for nipping and gnawing. We have one tooth on each side, 4 total, called–actually
I think it’s just, you know, 4 total called canines. Interesting. Canine. Let’s think about that here, right? So we have these canine teeth that allow us
to really shred and–and pull apart meat. Now not only that, we also evolved with a
bigger brain and we create the things called forks and knives and tools; therefore, our
body didn’t have to adapt to more fangs because we could just cut our pieces of meat
up smaller, right? We didn’t have to have all teeth to do it. We had external tools that took pressure off
our body evolving genetically. Evan Brand: That’s cool. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. Alright, I think that makes a lot of sense. Evan Brand: It does. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But–so those are
the big attacks, so I would say, one with meats, you get better nutrient density. Number two, you’re gonna get better blood
sugar stability with fats and proteins. Again, number three, you can still eat in
alignment with nature, not having all the chemicals and the junk and mono-culture by
eating local and having foods that are gluten­-free, you know, organic and GMO-free and all that
good stuff. And then number four, you can still cut out
all the junk that benefitted that benefitted the vegetarian-vegan when they first went
vegan-vegetarian that would benefit you. You can still cut out all the vegetable oils
and the trans-fats and the sugar and the junk alcohol, and you can still move better and
eat organic. You can still get all those benefits while
having meat. They aren’t mutually exclusive adaptations. Evan Brand: That’s true. Yeah, and you’re gonna get good cholesterol
that’s gonna help fuel your hormones when you’re– Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh. Evan Brand: Eating eggs and good meats. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes, and I can tell
you this being a hormones specialist, specially looking at thyroid and female hormones, so
many of my vegan and vegetarian patients that come in to me, come in with massive hormonal
issues and it makes sense because the building blocks that make your hormones come from cholesterol
and come from fat and come from protein and my sickest patients, again I know I have my
bias, but I’ve only had my bias because I have evolved to see what makes me feel the
best and also looking at it from an evolutionary and scientific perspective, is that protein
fuels our neurochemicals. They all come from protein. Our hormones all come from cholesterol and
typically protein, fat, and cholesterol are all connected in Mother Nature because they
don’t gut protein powders out Mother Nature. So we need these building blocks to make our
hormones and our neurochemicals, too. Evan Brand: Yeah, and it’s the same for
me. It’s the sickest ones who are the ones with
either a low-fat or low meat vegetarian type diet. Those are the ones where their–their adrenals
are just exhausted, other hormones are off, they’ve gained weight now, they’re slow,
they’re cold all the time, they’re hiding under blankets because they can’t stay warm,
et cetera, et cetera. I’m sure we could do a whole show on that. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, so my call to
anyone that’s listening to this that is vegan or vegetarian is to–if you wanna transition
over to Paleo, just try to take all the good meats or take all of the good vegetables that
are like you’re green-based vegetables. That’s gonna be your foundation, alright? Try to choose more lower sugar fruits, not
as higher as in our–in our tropical sugar fruits because we don’t wanna throw your
blood sugar off. Try to have good nuts and seeds and good fats
from coconut oil and flax and olive, and then try to add in maybe a little bit of egg yolk
or a little bit of salmon. Just something like that to get some extra
fats and proteins that you may not be used to as a starting point and then try to obviously
make sure the food quality piece is there as well. And anyone that’s vegetarian or vegan that
has gone Paleo, and they’re like, “Crap, I don’t feel good. My digestion is off.” It’s not the meat. It’s the meat revealing something is weak
in your digestive physiological chain. Do you wanna add to that, Evan? Evan Brand: No, that’s great, man. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Alright, cool. I think we hit everything down. Do you wanna kinda summarize everything back
to people? Evan Brand: Yeah, so I mean, pick a starting
place. Get the good fats in. If you’re still transitioning and you’re
worried that your stomach’s gonna get messed up then I would look at some digestive supplements. We have covered that a lot on our podcasts,
so check out the digestive episodes to get some secrets that are gonna help you to digest
things better as you start adding in these animal proteins back in, definitely adding
in the coconut oil, the butters, the fun, easy things like that and then you can transition
over to one day you’ll be eating some good bison meat hopefully and feeling a lot better. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. Awesome, Evan! I know you got a patient you gotta run to. I do as well. It was great chatting. I hope everyone that’s, you know, listening
to try to make that transition that need more help because you may have nutrient issues
or digestive issues, feel free to reach out to Evan or I. Evan Brand: Take care. Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thanks a lot, Evan. Bye!