Best Vegan Diet for Health is Not Starch Based with Dr. Joel Fuhrman

John: This is John Kohler with
Today we have another exciting episode for you and this one’s very exciting for me and
should be for you guys too since I have a special guest on my show today. I’m here with
Dr. Joel Fuhram. He’s one of the guys I look up to and I follow his dietary advice and
would encourage you guys also to follow his dietary advice as well. He has books on how
to reverse diabetes and heart disease and how to get kids to eat healthy.
One of the main things he teaches besides just eating a plant based diet or a starched
based diet, which are important, he takes it to the next level, right and I want you
guys to take your diet to the next level as well by eating a nutrient dense or what Dr.
Fuhrman calls nutritarian diet. So in this episode we’re going to ask Dr. Fuhrman why
it’s important to not just eat a plant based diet, but to more importantly eat a nutrient
dense diet or nutritarian diet. So Dr. Fuhrman, what would say?
Dr. Fuhrman: Thank you. In response to what you just said I say a couple things. Number
one, I’m a little confused about this word plant based any way because scientists the
world over don’t know what that means and the vegan community, they use that to mean
vegan plant based but world-wide scientists don’t use it to mean vegan, they don’t know
what that means plant based. Based means more than half. The American diet is only 32% of
calories animal products. It’s already plant based.
So I’m concerned about using that word in the scientific literature, because it’s unclear
and I want to use, so I was thinking nutrient dense, plant rich and I coined the term nutritarian
to be clear that it means a diet to be nutrient rich, but nutrient comprehensive, complete
with all the nutrients humans need and of course it’s a diet that’s designed to maximize
human longevity. I know it’s not for everybody, there are reason why people chose to eat certain
things for economic reason, the cheat that’s available, maybe there are foods that are
more locally grown, but whatever the reason it is and some people eat foods that they
prefer to eat, they eat foods their nutritional guru tells them to eat.
But see, a nutritarian diet is designed not based on what’s best ethically for the environment
or best, but it’s really what would be best to extend human longevity and I want to keep
my issues focused on my specialty and my specialty is what would be the diet style that would
be most effective at extending human longevity the max with no other considerations, most
especially protective against cancer because you can eat relatively healthy to protect
against heart disease but most Americans who haven’t eaten healthy the first half of their
life and already have DNA damage, methylation defects and broken DNA cross links and defects
in the mitochondria can’t just eat moderately healthy, they have to eat a diet with nutritional
excellence and that’s my specialty. How can we design a diet with nutritional
excellence, not just to be plant rich but also we know from hundreds, even thousands
of scientific studies that some plants are particularly more effective at preventing
cancer and extending human lifespan than other plants. The exposure to these rich plants
that are so protective gives us the ability to extend human lifespan, whip out the potential
of getting cancer and maximize our chances of having a long life past the age of 95 with
our mental faculties intact. Now I realize the average American dies at 79 and the bell
shaped curve is wide, which means a lot of people die between 60 and 79. We can narrow
that curve with any type of plant based diet, we can move the curve right, we can expand
human lifespan with any kind of plant based diet. But that doesn’t mean because it’s better
than the American diet, that doesn’t mean it’s designed to maximize human lifespan potential.
That’s my particular interest and not giving people what’s good, but what’s best. You could
do whatever you want out there but I also want to make sure I don’t sell anybody out
with information that’s not optimal and conservative in the sense that some people don’t thrive
on typical vegan diets and they don’t thrive for various reasons.
As a physician who’s been in practice for 25 years having seen tens of thousands of
patients, many thousands who haven’t thrived on a vegan diet doing blood tests and ascertaining
though careful analysis why they’re not thriving, instead of seeing these thousands of people
switching to a diet back to eat more animal products again, finding out why they’re not
thriving and making sure people don’t develop problems and some people do require more B12
than others, some people require more vitamin D and some people get DHA deficient and brain
shrinkage is not something that can be reversed. We know that a small percentage of people
on a vegan diet can develop DHA levels because of genetic deficiency, the convergentic enzymes
that could make them at high risk of developing dementia in later life which we’re seeing
in a lot of vegans today and I see in my practice all the time.
So I not only want to design a program to maximize human longevity but I want to make
sure I don’t sell any people out and that means young children eating a diet that’s
not, that’s a vegan diet not designed to be favorable, people with certain genetic weaknesses
or tendencies as well as the elderly who require more protein diet and we design the nutritarian
diet is designed specifically with nuts and seeds that protein rich and beans that are
protein rich and green vegetables that are protein rich.
It’s a little higher protein from plant proteins than is a more typical vegan diet makes it
more not only lifespan promoting, but it’s in those extremes of life and the early for
the people who are younger and childhood or as you get elder and your protein assimilation
goes down that you could get muscle atrophy, bone weaknesses and more disability and even
increased risk of cancer do to F1 dropping too low that the nutritarian diet is predominately
vegan and some people could do it on a flexitarian or near-vegan diet but either way.
We want to design it so it doesn’t leave some people out at the extremes of developed problems.
So you can’t, so I’m being more conservative, more careful and I think that some of the
vegan community are quite radical in prescribing one dietary approach for everybody assuming
that nobody can develop a problem in it and not paying attention to really making a diet
ideal for as many people and throwing out the widest net possible. You know what I mean
by throwing out the widest net possible? John: Yeah, absolutely. This is why I choose
to eat a Fuhrman nutritarian dense diet myself because it’s, from all the diets I’ve seen
and I’m a pretty smart guy, it’s the best that I’ve seen then I also try to do things
on my own to make Fuhrman’s diet better by growing my own food to have higher quality
fruits and vegetables because that’s the basis of his diet. So Fuhrman, for people that are
not familiar with your diet style you want to recommend and share with them the foods
that you eat, the g-bombs. Dr. Fuhrman: Well, the g-bombs aren’t the
center piece of the diet, but they are an acronym to help people remember foods they
want to eat regularly, almost daily because those food have very powerful effects that
work synergistically to fight off cancer and the g-bombs G-B-O-M-B-S: greens, beans, onions,
mushrooms, berries and seed. I just want to say something you said I want
to object to. I don’t really like to call what I do a Fuhrman diet, and I’ll tell you
why I object to that because it’s not a diet that it’s like it’s my diet, I’m taking, I’m
just like, I’m a student of nutritional literature worldwide and I read 20,000 and I really have
done this my whole life in evolving this as my career. As the studies come out, as the
studies change if something becomes more powerfully protective, like I’m finding out more about
raw onions in these last five years and I’m eating raw onions myself to see how protective
they are, my father died of chronic lymphocytic leukemia and when I find that raw onions are
protective against chronic lymphocytic leukemia I’m using them more in my dishes.
The point is there’s no one Fuhrman diet that I’m sticking too, that I’ve placed my hat
on. It’s whatever the scientific literature shows is ideal to prevent cancer and accelerate
people’s longevity. So that’s why, I didn’t and eating healthy and eating high nutrient
plant foods that are protective and extend longevity have been around for hundreds of
years. There’s a lot of people that came before me, the natural hygiene movement, a lot of
people who were advocated raw food and healthy eating for years before.
So I just don’t think that I feel comfortable putting my name on the diet. You could call
it, I sometimes call it a nutrient dense, plant rich diet to use the rich which means
more plants than based because based means more than half and rich means more than the
majority, I’m just trying to be more accurate in language. I think to be accurate in language
I don’t prefer, I prefer not to call it a Fuhrman diet either.
John: Alright. Dr. Fuhrman: Just to call it a really healthy,
super-healthy diet, sometimes I call it superior nutrition, nutritional excellence so I use
the word nutritarian to just sum up that word, it means high in nutrients and rich in plants
and trying to design to maximize human longevity. John: Awesome, yeah. I mean that’s the other
thing, a nutritarian diet, I’ll say that instead it’s something that’s flexible and is changing
over time, not like a dogmatic because as research changes he changes his diet and may
make different recommendations on changing things and including things like powerful
nuts and seeds that I know a lot of you guys watching may be on a more lower fat diet.
So Doctor Fuhrman why are nuts and seeds very important and essential to eating nutrient
dense and to be disease protective and that’s why I eat this diet style for not only disease
protection but also for longevity which are two of the most important things for me.
Dr. Fuhrman: Right. Well there’s just too much overwhelming evidence that you can’t
deny. You have to bury your head in a garbage pail to think that cutting nuts and seeds
out of a diet is going to make a person live longer. There’s hundreds of studies that shows
otherwise. I actually collected a hundred studies this last couple years and sent the
whole pile of a hundred to Doctor Dean Orange to read because we’re friends, we’ve been
friends and talking that more. But in case, the point I’m making now is that
the evidence is overwhelming that a vegan diet that’s low fat, below 10% of calories
and fat, omitting nuts and seeds like that shortens human lifespan you don’t absorb phytochemicals
as much, you’re not getting the anti-cancer effect from the vegetables from taking all
the fat out of your diet. You’re not getting those beneficial sterols, stanols, fibers,
anticyodins [?], they’re just factors, lignins, there’s things in this, those things are cancer
protective and there’s benefits to stabilize your blood vessels and there’s just so many
benefits for brain function with walnuts. I mean you can’t possibly, there’s in other
words, if you think that excluding nuts and seeds is a benefit then you haven’t read the
overwhelming amount of evidence that says otherwise. If you have, you could not have
conclusion or if you’re coming to that conclusion there must be some predetermined bias, or
ego going on that’s making you not accept this, the reality of the accumulated evidence
that you can’t deny at this point. So a diet, an extremely low-fat vegan diet is not favorable
to maximize longevity. When you eat nuts and seeds it lowers the
overall glycemic effect of your diet, exposing you better absorption of nutrients from other
foods. It increases stool fat, it sucks out bad cholesterol and other toxins out of your
tissues, puts them onto the toilet bowl. There’s so many benefits from using beans in your
diet and from using nuts and seeds in your diet and from the consumption of especially
raw green vegetables, cooked mushrooms, berries, these things where there’s hundreds of studies
on each particular food we’re talking about here showing their benefits and either you’re
going to, either we’re just going to come up with some crazy hypothesis and believe
people’s viewpoints based on their personalities or we’re going to be scientists without bias
and look at the scientific literature and see where the evidence points and when you
do that you can’t, you have to face reality here.
John: Yeah, that’s the other thing I want to encourage you, get some of Doctor Fuhrman’s
book, he has all the references in his books for the studies that share why he does what
he does. Dr. Fuhrman: I show the reference on both
sides by the way, like for example with regard to salt or DHA deficiency I discuss, for example
what’s the, where’s the studies that hide this DHA, it could be bad. Let’s look at those
studies, it could be good let’s look at those studies, why are there conflicts, why do people
choose one side or the other and why are the studies co-confusing, I try to look at all
the evidence and interpret the data in a way that makes logical sense, that explains the
conflicting evidence in a way that makes sense obviously and this making sense is that too
much has bad effects and sometimes too little has bad effects too and we want to be in that
sweet spot when we don’t know something we want to err on the side of caution and do
things, what’s most sensible and conservative, not to screw any people up by our, letting
or predetermined bias effect messing anybody up based on your ego or something.
John: Right that’s another thing I like about Doctor Fuhrman is that it’s not like right/wrong,
good/bad, even with animal consumption as long as you’re eat less than 10% and for some
people even less than 5% of your calories, that could be alright on a nutritarian style
diet and we need to get enough of these things that are essential but not too much of things
that are non-essential like in my opinion the animal products, although certain other
things like sodium, we need sodium is an essential nutrient but we don’t want too much of it
because that can cause real bad problems. Any comments Doctor Fuhrman?
Dr. Fuhrman: That’s probably true what you said. My only comment to what you just said
is I don’t know precisely whether a vegan diet is best for all people but it’s best
for a lot of people and it might be the best diet out there. But some people may do better
with a small amount of animal products, some people, some elderly people may do better
with a small amount. I’m designing a vegan diet with enough of
the, with enough of the high protein plant foods so less people have to go on animal
products to get the protein they need as their protein assimilation goes down over the age
of 80 years old so people who are body builders or really serious athletes or as elderly people
need the extra calories and extra protein don’t need to use much animal products in
their diet. But we don’t want to come across dogmatic in the sense that we know everything
or that there may be some, what’s the word, variants for individuals that are somewhat
different from others and some people may thrive on a diet with a little bit of animal
products compared to none. But my point is just because a person doesn’t
thrive on a vegan diet doesn’t mean they should go back to eating a lot of animal products.
They should design the vegan diet to be more favorable for them without the animal products
then if they do still need some animal products it should be the smallest amount possible
because there’s too many detrimental possibilities when you’re taking in too much animal protein
and also contaminants and other reasons why we want to get the animal products relatively
low if a person needs them. John: Yeah, and the whole thing we want to
focus on is once again the nutrient dense foods, fruits and vegetables, beans, mushrooms,
onions, berries like Doctor Fuhrman says. So Doctor Fuhrman any last comments for my
viewers today to improve their life, to improve their health to improve their longevity.
Dr. Fuhrman: Yes, their, yes we’re talking, yes this is the advice is about greens, onions
and mushrooms and that there’s some enzymes that are heat sensitive in greens and onions
that should be consumed raw every day. So your green vegetables, kale, collards, lettuces
and things like that, you want to eat some raw greens every day or raw shredded cabbage
or watercress, arugula, beneficial myrosinase especially is heat sensitive and even if you
take some of that raw and you add some cooked vegetables with it you get more nutrients
from the cooked vegetables because you ate the raw vegetables the same meal because the
myrosinase enzymes you consumed that was heat sensitive could be used for some of the cooked
vegetables to benefit their digestion and their formation of the beneficial isothiocyanates
which likewise the alliinase enzyme in onions is very beneficial to form those beneficial
anti-cancer organosulfite compounds. So you want to eat some raw scallion or raw onion
on your salad. You don’t just want to eat cooked onion because you’re deactivate the
alliinase enzyme. That’s A-L-L-II-N-A-S-E. Two ls, two is, any interested word, no other
word’s spelled that way alliinase. Then as far as mushrooms, powerful anti-cancer
effects. We want to use mushrooms and a variety of them if possible. But they’re best off
cooked because there’s a mild carcinogen called agaritine that blows off with cooking. So
I’m saying yes, eat a lot of raw food but add some cooked mushrooms to it because it’s
just a lot of benefits from cooked mushrooms that actually you’re even making it healthier
if you cook it lightly. John: Yeah, I want to encourage you guys not
to live by any dogma style but live with what’s important to you. Like, I’m starting to include
things like cooked mushroom powders to get those mushrooms in me because I want to be
disease proof and that’s what Doctor Fuhrman teaches you guys. Another thing I like to
say is on the onions like onions are one of the easiest things you guys could grow and
I like to prefer to eat the onion greens instead of the onion bulbs, they’re a lot more nutrient
dense. Dr. Fuhrman: That’s a good point. Then the
point, you also was making it’s fun to garden get to the earth and get your hands. I mean,
I’m loving to do that as a hobby. I have my own greenhouse and a garden and I’m growing
my own fig trees, my own tomatoes, my own vegetables, and my own beans. I eat them,
I grow broccoli but I eat a lot of the broccoli leaf right off the plant. The broccoli leaves
are fantastic. John: They’re way better, yeah.
Dr. Fuhrman: They’re better than the broccoli. John: They’re more nutrient dense too!
Dr. Fuhrman: Yeah, I’m just, I grow broccoli just to eat the leaves from the broccoli leaves.
I eat part of my meals right outside in the garden. I don’t even bring the food into the
house. I’ll grab a tomato, I’ll grab some broccoli leaves, I’ll pick some okra off the
plant, I’ll eat some, I’ll eat figs from my fig tree, I’ll start, and I’ll eat it, I’ll
eat berries outside. So I usually will eat part of my meal just like right outside in
the garden which is a lot of fun I think. John: It is, no I have a blast, I have plenty
of videos eating stuff out of the garden. So Doctor Fuhrman, last question for you.
Juicing, do you think juicing can be a beneficial part of a nutritarian diet?
Dr. Fuhrman: I think it can be especially with people with poor digestion or inability,
bad chewing because their teeth are older, their teeth are bad. So it adds the nutrients
to the diet for people who don’t have the time to chew a big salad or the ability to
chew a big salad. Juicing could be advantageous to people coming off a more conventional diet,
maybe they have a serious diagnosis like cancer and have to get the nutrients in their body
more quickly to increase their defenses. So juicing can be beneficial to people who aren’t
eating as well, don’t have the ability to chew as well.
So yeah, there’s a lot of reasons why you could use juicing. If you’re eating a perfect
diet it’s not essential you juice of course unless you have bad teeth and you can’t chew
very well. There’s also an advantage to chewing a salad over juicing of course because there’s
some advantage in mixing the bacteria in the mouth with actually the salad you chew and
forming more nitrogen and other beneficial compounds. So it is, if you are going to juice
it’s still good to eat a salad and chew one and eat a salad you actually eat and chew
too. The other problem is that you want to use
your teeth and you’re going to use your jaw because you don’t have want have jaw atrophy
and teeth atrophy because you’re juicing, maybe it’s smoothies and you don’t use your
teeth anymore. We want to actually chew things. You know what I mean?
John: Yeah, it’s important in my opinion to chew properly. Not just two chews on the lettuces,
greens, the broccoli greens and swallow. Dr. Fuhrman: That’s a good point.
John: Turn it into a mush. That’s why we feed babies baby food. Most people unfortunately
don’t chew things good enough and you can tell by looking in the toilet after you go
to the bathroom and seeing chunks of food. If you’re seeing chunks of food that’s in
the toilet after you’re done eating you’re not getting the benefit, it’s getting flushed
down the toilet. Dr. Fuhrman: I enjoyed talking to you, you’re
making a lot of great points. John: Thank you Doctor Fuhrman.
Dr. Fuhrman: It’s such a pleasure talking and I hope you’re all inspired from this and
I appreciate your work. John: Thank you Doctor Fuhrman. So, last thing
Doctor Fuhrman, if somebody wants to learn more about you, your books, get on your special
membership program so they can talk to you and you can answer their questions or one
of your other doctors on staff, how can they do that.
Dr. Fuhrman:, we have a member site and it’s a lot of fun, we have people
over the world communicating and a lot of people from other countries communicating.
I’m really excited that my books have been translated to 17 different languages around
the world, they all, but so it’s really exciting. Hope I, so if you have an particular concerns
it enables me to customize the advice for people with various conditions and concerns
or even answer people’s questions that they’re confused about.
The other issue is, that I mention, is my newest book just came out The End of Heart
Disease. It’s 440 pages, this is my biggest book ever. I think it’s really, I feel it’s
my best book because I really don’t, I analysis a lot of different diets, they’ve been to
reverse heart disease, but the really thing that I think that people need this type of
comprehensive look at the futility of the medical profession, the futility of angioplasty,
of bypass surgery, of cholesterol lowering drugs, the dangers of blood pressure medications.
It goes through not just the right thing to do but why, but if I really feel if people
saw how poor a choice, using medications to control symptoms were then many more millions
of people would choose to eat really healthfully. So I think it’s very motivational to give
people so much information. So even though there’s a lot of pages to read I really think
a lot of people are enjoying all the information I put in there.
John: Yeah, I mean I for one appreciate Doctor’s Furhman’s….
Dr. Fuhrman: Did you read it? John: Well I haven’t read that one yet.
Dr. Fuhrman: Yeah, okay. John: But I recommend you guys especially
if you don’t like reading, like I don’t like reading, like what I love to do is go to,
many of Dr. Fuhrman’s books are on audible, I download them to my iPod thing or whatever
and I listen to it while I’m gardening. Dr. Fuhrman: Oh really? I don’t, that’s a
good idea though. Sometimes I don’t like, when I’m in the car I would like to do that
but I can read faster than I can listen. John: I can listen faster. I can multitask.
Dr. Fuhrman: So I can sort on page really fast and if I do it, I’m sitting there going
too slow, I can’t sit through this, it’s too slow.
John: You could speed up the audio actually two times the speed.
Dr. Fuhrman: Oh you can speed it up? John: So you can listen to it really fast.
Dr. Fuhrman: That’s good. John: If you can comprehend it.
Dr. Fuhrman: It’s just a question of trying to get as much in as possible some of them,
I lose patience. John: Anyways, if you want to read it or get
the audible version, the whole point is you guys need to get Doctor Fuhrman’s information
because it will change your life, like it’s made a difference in mine, to take my diet
to the next level and I’m 100% confident it could take your diet to the next level too.
So listen to this guy, he knows a lot, he shares a lot and thank you for being on the
show today Doctor Fuhrman. Dr. Fuhrman: My pleasure. My pleasure.
John: Alright, so if you guys enjoyed this episode wit Doctor Fuhrman, hey please give
me a thumbs up I’ll be sure to get Doctor Fuhrman on in future episodes. Also be sure
to click that subscribe button right down below to be noted for my new and upcoming
episodes I’ve got coming out about every 5 to 7 days. Also be sure to share this video
with somebody you love, you care about, a friend, a neighbor, a co-worker that this
will help because getting on a nutritarian style diet is only going to help you because
I know most of the people I eat, especially in the raw foods circles that I hang out with
are not unfortunately on a nutritarian diet, eating enough of these nutrient dense foods.
Dr. Fuhrman: Some people are eating too much fruit.
John: Absolutely. Dr. Fuhrman: They’re not eating vegetables.
John: Fruit can be really detrimental. Dr. Fuhrman: Like the all fruit diet, was
just a little bit of vegetables, that’s right. John: That’s, lots of vegetables. Yeah, eat
some fruit too, but lots of vegetables. Dr. Fuhrman: Lots of vegetables.
John: Especially the onions and garlic and all this very important. Also be sure to check
my past episodes, my past episodes are a wealth of knowledge. I have over 450 episodes at
this time sharing with you guys how to eat a nutrient dense, plant rich diet. I don’t
know if I got Doctor Fuhrman’s approval on that one. So once again this is John Kohler
with We’ll see you next time, and until then remember keep eating your fresh
fruits and vegetables they’re always the best. Is Seaweed a Healthy or Harmful Superfood??
On a Raw Food Diet Alright! This is John Kohler with
Today we have another exciting episode for you and what we’re going to do today on this
episode is have another one of my famous compilation videos where I interview over a dozen of my
friends, long term raw foodists, people